Over the past 34 months homebirth advocates have taught me a lot. They have taught me that babies lost don't matter at all. They get angry when a homebirth death is shared and make comments about how the baby would of died anyway, babies die in the hospital too, and the location had nothing to do with it. They are incredibly rude and hurtful towards moms with any homebirth loss or injury. Obviously, when Dr Amy started up the Hurt by Homebirth site, we received serious backlash. Advocates were incredibly angry that there wasn't a hurt by hospital birth site. So, one San Diego area licensed midwife, named Vickii Gervais, decided to start a hurt by hospital birth site.
Now, what kind of stories are on this site?? How many mothers or babies died due to negligence?? How many mothers or babies were injured?? The answer to these questions is none. What consitutues being hurt by hospital birth??
Story 1: was a mom who ended up with an emergency c-section at 35 weeks for a footling breech. An inverted T incision was given in order to get baby out. Mom later had a VBA3C in the hospital with a supportive OB. The 4th child just happened to of also been her only full term baby. This was her blessing from Jesus!
Story 2: was a mom who didn't get her birth plan followed. She had fetal monitors strapped to her belly that were snug, didn't labor in the shower, didn't get her waterbirth, and was left to labor with her husband/family. Oh, then the drain was clogged in her shower.
Then story 3: Mom who (in 1975) was strapped down, given an IV, given oxygen, given an episiotomy and had her baby taken for 6 hours. That one did make me cringe. However, I took the opportunity to call my own mother and ask about birthing practices when I was born (1980). Turns out it was routine to rush you to a birthing room alone, do an enema, do an episiotomy, put legs in stirrups to push, then take baby for a bit. If you've had a baby in the last 20 years, you'll know this is no longer routine care. My mother was with me for the birth of my youngest and was quite impressed with all the changes made.
What really got me about these stories was their attempt at one-upping women who had their babies die. I would happily have a c-section or a deviation from my birth plan if it meant a living child. Are you trying to tell us that a non perfect birth experience is worse than having a dead baby?? Is your experience that much more important than the baby's??
This site thoroughly disgusts me and I cannot believe someone who calls themselves a professional would publish stories of women who weren't harmed or hurt by a hospital birth. They are women who sound like my children when I don't buy the flavor ice cream they wanted!
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I just write a very honest post about my experience. I had my son in a shopital but i truly believe if he had been home brthed, like i originally planed, that he would have died. He needed medical attention immedietly and if i had been home i dont believe he would ahve made it. I have been attacked by many a home birth supporter. its not that i dont support home birth i just think people need to be totally aware. i honetsly believed nothing would ever happen to me and that no matter what home birth was best but iv learned that there are lots of women out there too scared to share their stories and speak out against home birth because of the backlah of HB supporters. Someone on a home birthing forum called me numerous names like "idiot" and claimed that she didnt even think my story was real. it is very real.
you can read my birth story here...
http://www.justbyliving.com/2010/01/my-birth-story-part-1-of-2.html
and my thoughts on home birth here...
http://www.justbyliving.com/2011/04/home-birth-jealousy-and-sucky-truths.html
The blog information reads like they made it just mock the families at Hurt by Homebirth. I can't even really put in to words how disgusted I am.
When I first read that blog, I thought it was some sort of sick joke. Then when I realized it was for real, it just made me angry.
I thought much the same thing as I read that blog. Is this the best they can come up with, for those "hurt by hospital birth"? I have heard of horrible outcomes due to mismanagement and malpractice in hospital. Those people, though, don't generally reject the medical system but pursue legal action and advocate for change. The cases on the Hurt by Hospital birth were not even close to the same caliber as those on the hurt by homebirth site.
"What really got me about these stories was their attempt at one-upping women who had their babies die." -- This says more about you than the women who had been posting.
You know, as a mother who was hurt by hospital birth YOUR post is insulting. You do NOT need to have a dead baby to have been hurt physically or seriously damaged emotionally or have your baby hurt or all combined (not talking about a bad experience alone). Hospitals are just as negligent as some midwives and can be even less concerned about safety.
There is no place for women like me to share my stories with others with similar experiences. Due to hospital negligence I have a host of problems in my nether regions and there is no knowing whether or not the results of their actions will lead to developmental delays or injuries to my daughter. We won't know for up to 10 years. That's right...10 years of wondering. Every day.
And you know what? The comment by La Mama Loca is really ignorant. We pursued legal action and were told that unless "evident" harm had been done there was nothing they could do and no one would take our case. So we have to have what? A dead baby to pursue legal action? How is that right, or fair? It's not. Justice needs to be served and no other parents should have to go through something like that again yet all of the people involved in our care are still there practicing like nothing happened. How is it fair or right that those of us who really have been hurt by hospital birth are told we being childish. Really? My baby's neck almost broke thanks to the hospital.
What about my cousin who went into premature labor and the hospital did nothing and let their baby die? When will they get justice? When will they have somewhere to share their stories?
This post enrages me. There is no where for people like us to turn to because spiteful people like you were bothered by a few selfish stories among people who really have been hurt by hospital birth. I am truly sickened at the tone of this post. And you called some of these women selfish.
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"If you've had a baby in the last 20 years, you'll know this is no longer routine care." And that makes that woman's story and less valid? Does it make what they were doing any less wrong? No! And now thanks to people like you she has NOWHERE to share her story. Thanks to people like you there are thousands of women hurt by hospital birth who have no where to go for support. Great job. You must really care about others. NOT. You only care about your story and your selfish beliefs.
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Get the hell over yourself.
http://www.solaceformothers.org/
There, a place to share your story, Firestar.
Firestar,
The point of the post was to point out that women who had less than ideal birth experiences in the hospital, yet came home with healthy children, really should be thankful that they indeed came home with children. They should be thankful that when complications happened they were able to be treated by competent medical professionals.
Instead, they spoke as if the babies were irrelevant, that the most important thing was the birth experience.
MMF lost her baby daughter after a home birth due to an incompetent midwife who failed to recognize that the baby was in distress and left. Had she had the baby in a hospital, trained medical staff would most likely have recognized the signs and treated the baby right away. Instead her daughter is gone.
MMF does not understand, due to her traumatic experience, why mothers complain about minor inconveniences like fetal heart monitors or not be grateful that they could have a C section to safely deliver their footling breech. And yes, she finds that line of thinking to be selfish.
When you lose a child you start to really see what is important in life: a living baby and what is not: ideal birth experience.
But NOWHERE does MMF state that women who actually DID have REAL traumatic birth experiences at hospitals should NOT have a voice. She did not say that ALL hospital births are perfect.
I am sorry that you had such a horrible experience in the hospital. That is unfortunate and I understand why you would be angry. But for whatever reason you are unable to seek legal recourse and you have no evidence of damages at this time. That is not MMF's fault. But she wouldn't argue with you needing to seek justice if justice is warranted. So why attack her?
Furthermore, how exactly has she stopped you from finding a place to go for support?
She doesn't run Google. Type in birth trauma and I am sure you can easily find a vast amount of resources. Go to MDC. There are entire forums dedicated to women sharing their hospital birth horror stories. You can complain about fetal heart monitors and purple pushing until the cows come home. Have at it!
But don't act like one blogger expressing their heartfelt opinion on the internet is somehow to blame for your failures to seek out resources and supports.
If you are concerned about developmental delays in your child due to the birth injury, then no one is stopping you from seeking a free evaluation through either your state's early intervention program http://nichcy.org/babies/services (0-3) or your district's special education program. http://nichcy.org/schoolage (3-26).
Funny, I am a midwife who has done both hospital and home births in about equal numbers (so I actually have a basis from which to speak), and I have considered making a "Hurt By Hospital Birth" site myself because of all of the severe morbidity - and mortality - that I have seen in hospital settings; terrible harm that was entirely unnecessary and would never have occurred at any of my home births.
If a midwife did any of the things that I have witnessed in some of those hospital births, she would be in prison, but those doctors are still practicing with impunity. THAT is what is disgusting.
And no, I am not talking about "hurt feelings" or c-sections (unwanted but needed), I am talking about dead babies...and worse, who could have been fine. No mother should have to go through that, at the hands of any provider, but my experience in both locations has clearly shown less harm to families at home.
I do not dread transports because of the attitude of the receiving hospital, because that is not a problem for me. I dread them because I worry that my client may be at the mercy of a genuine quack if the wrong person happens to be on call there. Thank God for the really good ones, I wish we could clone them.
HighlandMidwife, I don't know how many births you have done total. However, common sense would dictate that more "genuine quacks" make it to becoming a homebirth midwife than an OB. Why? You tell me. How much schooling did you have to do to get your license? Do you have a license at all? Many don't.
Please do start your blog. I'd love to see how many stories pour in about how an OB killed a baby that would have otherwise lived at home. I hear many midwives and doulas claim this, but mostly this is based on pure conjecture, religious belief in homebirth, and assumptions that are simply not true.
@ laura:
Personal attacks? Really? Your post is full of "assumptions that are simply not true", but mine was not. [Oh no, a midwife who makes sense, what will they think of next, and I did not even refer to religion!] Did your "common sense" make you question whether I am even licensed, when I would have to be very well-credentialed indeed to do hundreds of hospital births...??? Please, save the personal attacks for someone who deserves them, like the various Ob's on call who on 3 different occasions in as many years sent my patients home that I sent in for induction (and c-section if necessary), only to have them end up with dead babies and almost dead themselves from pre-eclampsia before I even knew that they had been released from the hospital. Yes, that happens - midwives can and do make better diagnoses and clinical judgment calls than doctors, and unfortunately it is not a rare and isolated event. So take your sanctimonious snobbery and use it on folks who hurt people. I did not attack you, so if you can't handle the truth without being rude to the messenger, then don't read.
The location of birth and type of provider is not what causes harm, it is the quality of the individual provider, and the influence of the policy-makers who tell them how to treat. Plenty of harm happens in hospitals that is not inevitable - that's why we have terms like iatrogenic and nosocomial. I have seen enough of them firsthand that you would not have to wait to see "how many stories pour in".
Birth trauma is tragic no matter where it happens, but again - I see a lot less of it at home births. That is why I prefer them; it sure is not because of the cozy hours or awesome pay. (That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it.)
And if this was happening at such alarming rates, then why do you not report your observations? Why are you not going public with this information other than on this blog? Or have you posted this in a local newspaper letter to the editor at least? Why do you keep sending patients to such incompetent quacks? Interesting that you instead choose to come here to talk about one tiny corner of YOUR universe. A lot of good it's going to do the people who you think are being so terribly injured and lied to in your community. So if this is happening I certainly hope you aren't just talking about it on random blog posts that were written nearly 2 years ago and are actually doing something about it within your community, because if that is happening then it's awful and the law should be notified.
You are accusing me of a personal attack? You -- who comes onto the blog of a woman who lost her healthy, full-term child as a direct result of a homebirth midwife's inability to diagnose serious breathing problems in her infant, and has presided over 8 -- EIGHT -- deaths of full-term, healthy babies. That is an interesting rebuttal indeed.
And not really proving your point at all. Way to be "with woman" there, HighlandMidwife.
Oh wait, I get it now. "With woman" is referring to other MIDWIVES. Not the women who give birth. Now it makes total sense.
At least one of the moms is suing, so don't assume that nothing is being done. Her attorney told her that the only thing that will happen is that malpractice might settle, but - and he looked me straight in the eye when he said it - if her MIDWIFE had been the one who screwed up instead of the hospital, it would be on the news and my license would be pulled, and charges pressed.
And those were different doctors, who happened to be on call at different hospitals, so don't assume that I "send" my patients to quacks. You folks act like this never happens, but it happens all the time, and all I did was point out that the location does not matter when a mother and baby are harmed, and knowing you have a good provider is the closest to a guarantee of safety that any of us have.
So honest and balanced perspective is not welcome here. Got it.
The location does, indeed, matter. Because the location also determines quick access to technology, surgery, drugs, and high-tech equipment that are vital to saving an infant's life when seconds matter. This sort of insistence that up is down and common sense makes no sense is exactly what has lead many of us down the yellow brick road of believing that homebirth is safer than the hospital.
The fact that you have presided over hundreds of births at both locations and can still deny this reality tells me that you have no more of a balanced perspective than a religious zealot or a flat-earth reality denialist. And Bambi has heard from enough of those since the death of her daughter, so no, I don't think she needs to hear from one more "genuine quack." YOUR words.
So you are practicing with a license? What about the midwives who are not? What happens to those midwives? And malpractice insurance will handle it. Okay great, do you carry malpractice insurance? Do all of your colleagues carry malpractice insurance? What happens when you make a mistake? Do you think it's public record that this blogger's midwife was negligent? Can you explain how she has gone on to have 8 unexplained deaths? How many unexplained deaths do these quacks you refer to have? You said you have sent these women to these doctors only to have them sent home instead of inducing. Just going based off what you have said here. You are knowingly sending women to people who don't have their best interest at heart. Why aren't you going with them? I mean you're the medical person making the referral on your patients care. Why don't you at least call ahead and explain what medical reason you have for sending a patient in? Isn't that what a responsible care provider does for her patients? I mean you're more than just her friend giving guesses about what might be going on with her labor that would need it to happen in the hospital, no? So if you're sending these women to the hospital shouldn't you then be following up with the hospital? You see here's how it worked when I have gone into the hospital for any of my pregnancies. I call my doctor, tell her what's going on, she decides if I should head to the hospital or not. If she wants me at the hospital she called the hospital and tells them to expect me. When I get to labor and delivery my name is already on the board, my chart has been pulled, and they have instructions from my doctor about what they want to do. I might have to answer questions, but for the most part they already have a plan of action because my care provider called ahead and told them to expect me. They have my file on hand and know what I'm allergic to and what my medical history is and they treat me with all of that knowledge at their disposal.
No one here denies that babies die in hospitals. No one here denies that it happens due to neglect. However, there is a completely different handling of things with a homebirth midwife who doesn't need to carry a license or malpractice insurance and who has to answer to no one, but I guess God for the mistakes she has made. Have you read Bambi's story? Have you seen what happened to her after her baby died and it was proven that she died due to neglect? Do you understand that this is a midwife who has continued to practice over the last 4 years or so and has gone on to then have more deaths under her belt? Are you honestly telling me that any doctor who has 8 negligent deaths per lets say 50 births that he would still be practicing? That any malpractice insurance wouldn't have dropped him 5 deaths ago? Because I'm saying if that kind of behavior is being allowed to happen in your community, then you have some very serious problems going on where you live and you need to stop telling us this is a part of life and you need to be petitioning your legislatures and law enforcement to look into these negligent practices that are occurring.
Mistakes happen and no one wants to be the victim of someone's neglect, but having no recourse and watching that person go on to do it repeatedly makes the entire situation that much worse for any grieving parent. There's never any closure and that kind of treatment is appalling. Doctor or midwife, it's appalling, but show me a doctor who has the same stats as Bambi's midwife who's still legally practicing medicine and I guarantee you we would not be supporting that sort of global miscarriage of justice and we would seek to have that problem rectified.
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